If this had been a Christian sign...

[R13]

That's what it was changed to. They rearranged the letters to say that, along with the ones at the Coeburn Cinema and the "Coeburn : Home of Friendly People" to " Friend of Homely People" - which was my favorite btw.

So by saying that they rearranged the sign, they in fact altered the sign from its original message which indeed would be vandalism.
I wonder who "THEY" were? Atheists??? Because surely no Christian would vandalize their own sign just as no atheist would vandalize theirs......HMMMM.....

I don't think that's legally vandalism or if it's borderline. They were some young people pulling pranks all through coeburn, no atheists.

[1inStripes]

Since North Carolina is overwhelming Christian, it's very likely it was a Christian. And the tops and bottoms sign wasn't even vandalism.

Very likely you could classify that the persons who done this may have a Christian background. That doesn't make them Christians. Also, its possible that the persons who done this were muslims, hindus, agnostics or whoever. We don't know since no one has come forward or been caught. How many people actually knew who even put the signs up at the time? I have yet to see where it said "sponsored by Atheists of NC" or something like that on the signs. It could have been someone who is very patriotic of any faith, or no faith.

Vandalism is the destruction property. Rearranging letters to change the words paid for on a billboard whether permanent or not, is vandalism.

[Gotch]

It's very relevant. There's a difference in someone doing it just because it was religious than some punks like the ones who spray paint buildings, rock sides, trains, trash cans etc. This with the atheist/agnostic group sign was obviously done because it was an atheist/agnostic sign. And since I've never seen a church sign vandalized, I can assume that all churches in the country have never been vandalized, so it equals to about 0 to 0 a year. That works both ways.

No, it has no relevance at all. In most cases when a church sign is vandalized it is with some sort of anti christian symbols or message anyway, but as for the point being argued it makes no difference.

durhamregion.com | Whitby church vandalized, now in flames

durhamregion.com | Whitby church sign vandalized

WMICentral - Church's sign of support for marriage law vandalized

Naples police repair vandalized sign at River Park church Naples Daily News

Minnesota Church's Pro-Life Memorial Vandalized in Recent Pro-Abortion Attacks

The Famuan - Church sign is vandalized

Church Rebounds from Hateful Message | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

korean church vandalized with hate graffiti | angry asian man

Church Bus Vandalized | NBC Washington

HeraldNet: 3 Sultan churches vandalized

Jeff Carr, left, of Fountain Valley repaired this sign after it was vandalized in front of his home : News Photo

Another church vandalized; 3 teenage girls charged Local News The Herald, Sharon, Pa.

Church Vandalized with Swastika, Racial Slur|ABC News 4

Harrison Daily Times - Vandals deface church sign

Anti-abortion sign across from Milltown church vandalized | mycentraljersey.com | MyCentralJersey.com

Church groups help pastor fix sign Local News The Herald Bulletin

Sign Vandalized At Clover Road Baptist Church - Central Coast News Story - KSBW The Central Coast

Oops, there goes your zero estimate. Happens multiple times, every day.

[cosmo99]

I don't think that's legally vandalism or if it's borderline. They were some young people pulling pranks all through coeburn, no atheists.

SO how do you know if the ones that vandalized the atheist sign were not some young people pulling pranks.....You don't know...

[Counts]

[QUOTE=R13;1828722]Another is being the most judging people I have ever came across.
QUOTE]


You know when you start spouting off about how ingot and closed minded people are that IS judging as well in fact IF you were to know NOTHING about a person other than that they were a Christian and/or a Republican I think you would have you mind 90% made up about that person......You sir seem to judge people at LEAST as much as the people you complain about.....If true that would make you a Hypocrite (I think that was another beef you had with some groups of people)

[collegetrumpet2010]

I don't think that's legally vandalism or if it's borderline. They were some young people pulling pranks all through coeburn, no atheists.

They may not have been atheists. They may have just been some youth pulling pranks. However, their form of pulling pranks was vandalism. They were messing with public property.

If you don't classify it as vandalism then how do you classify it?

[CoeburnCane]

Then don't watch it.

I don't agree w/everything R13 says, but your response there is a copout.

When it's shoved in people's faces, and people on TBN or the 700 Club (I'm looking at you Pat Robertson), try to shape my everyday life through political lobbying--it becomes an issue I can't ignore and I can't simply turn it off. When they're attacking people who don't watch them and/or don't agree with them, then it goes past the purpose of Christianity, which is a loose term when applied to what they're preaching vs what normally ends up being their actions. We can't just "not watch it" when there's real-world ramifications of these people's words and actions on our lives. They're lobbyists with a satellite dish to transmit their agenda to the masses.

And before you or someone else asks "what actions are you talking about?", I think it's re-damn-diculous to ask someone for money in return for your prayers b/c you supposedly have some kind of inner-pipeline to God. That's not what Christianity is supposed to be about, and just another instance of why I believe in faith WAY more than I do any world-based religion. Anything having to do with man is inherently corrupt.

[Counts]

I think it's re-damn-diculous to ask someone for money in return for your prayers .

VERY true however I THINK that most are asking for the money to fund the lobbying you spoke of to try to make changes that (one would guess) that those sending the money in agree with......It is sort of like a Union in a place of bussness only on more of a volentary bases (dues pay for lobbiest that in theory grease the wheels of Gov in order to get favorable legaslation passed)

[CoeburnCane]

VERY true however I THINK that most are asking for the money to fund the lobbying you spoke of to try to make changes that (one would guess) that those sending the money in agree with......It is sort of like a Union in a place of bussness only on more of a volentary bases (dues pay for lobbiest that in theory grease the wheels of Gov in order to get favorable legaslation passed)

I've thought about that too, but I don't like to think about it b/c to me that makes it even worse. If you're looking to get money from people to supply the cause they believe in--say so. Why do you have to go through all the bamboozle of saying "I'll pray for you in exchange for a $100 faith donation"? If you're really all about what Christianity is supposed to be about, then why pass yourself off as a false prophet only out for money to support a political cause?

Be a politician OR a man of God. Don't try to be both, I guess is what I don't like and can't respect.

All organized religion is to me anymore is snake-oil mixed with political agendas. Your own personal faith in a higher being is THE key. You believe in a preacher that told you something that God told him? You deserve to be damned in my eyes.

I'm not an atheist or agnostic. I'm anti-organized religion, but pro-personal faith, I guess is the terminology that I should use.

[R13]

No, it has no relevance at all. In most cases when a church sign is vandalized it is with some sort of anti christian symbols or message anyway, but as for the point being argued it makes no difference.

durhamregion.com | Whitby church vandalized, now in flames

durhamregion.com | Whitby church sign vandalized

WMICentral - Church's sign of support for marriage law vandalized

Naples police repair vandalized sign at River Park church Naples Daily News

Minnesota Church's Pro-Life Memorial Vandalized in Recent Pro-Abortion Attacks

The Famuan - Church sign is vandalized

Church Rebounds from Hateful Message | NBC Dallas-Fort Worth

korean church vandalized with hate graffiti | angry asian man

Church Bus Vandalized | NBC Washington

HeraldNet: 3 Sultan churches vandalized

Jeff Carr, left, of Fountain Valley repaired this sign after it was vandalized in front of his home : News Photo

Another church vandalized; 3 teenage girls charged Local News The Herald, Sharon, Pa.

Church Vandalized with Swastika, Racial Slur|ABC News 4

Harrison Daily Times - Vandals deface church sign

Anti-abortion sign across from Milltown church vandalized | mycentraljersey.com | MyCentralJersey.com

Church groups help pastor fix sign Local News The Herald Bulletin

Sign Vandalized At Clover Road Baptist Church - Central Coast News Story - KSBW The Central Coast

Oops, there goes your zero estimate. Happens multiple times, every day.

Kinda throws your 49/50 a day estimate out too when half say "this is the first time this has happened to us" or along those lines. One was posted twice btw, one was teenage girls who painted " i like mailboxes" on their mailbox, one wasn't even a church sign..they were prop 8 signs(which I don't have the least bit of sympathy for them) and there were I think 4 I counted that just had to do with race(race of the church leaders) and not religiously motivated. And the last one looked like nothing but a car that hit a sign. While some were disgusting and some were stupid, that doesn't back up anything you've said, as in the christian message/signs is attacked multiple times daily...esp. when your examples are spread out over years. Also that the claim that they aren't reported on or ignored, which you contradicted yourself.

I got links too though.

Atheist holiday display vandalized in Los Angeles

Atheist bus ads vandalized in Detroit

Missing atheist sign found in Washington state - CNN.com

Atheist Billboard Vandalized

Atheist sign stolen from Capitol rotunda - Springfield, IL - The State Journal-Register



There's a few I found.

SO how do you know if the ones that vandalized the atheist sign were not some young people pulling pranks.....You don't know...

From what they did to the sign, there's a difference in like what one of the links gotch posted with 3 teengers spray painting a churches mailbox and dumb things like that...that changing the message of the sign, one was an attack against beliefs, the other wasn't.

[quote=Counts;1828756]

Another is being the most judging people I have ever came across.
QUOTE]


You know when you start spouting off about how ingot and closed minded people are that IS judging as well in fact IF you were to know NOTHING about a person other than that they were a Christian and/or a Republican I think you would have you mind 90% made up about that person......You sir seem to judge people at LEAST as much as the people you complain about.....If true that would make you a Hypocrite (I think that was another beef you had with some groups of people)

It's not being a hypocrite when I don't claim to live by a book and religion that tells you not to do it. Of course it's judging, I judge people on their actions and their choices(and I'm not talking about my idea of bad actions and choices), not just because their Christian or whatever. Atheists/agnostics are the least trusted people in the country out of any group, for what reason? None, whatsoever, just ignorance. I have no problem judging someone for them being a hypocrite or for their ignorant views, but again, I don't pretend to follow a "Holy" book that tells me not to...which is hypocrisy and hypocrites go to hell just like those people they judge and deem hell-bound. And when I say people pick and choose what they want to follow from the Bible, that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

They may not have been atheists. They may have just been some youth pulling pranks. However, their form of pulling pranks was vandalism. They were messing with public property.

If you don't classify it as vandalism then how do you classify it?

No it's not, I classify vandalism like it is, damage or destruction to the property. That wasn't the case.



















Christianity has never been what it's supposed to, it's been distorted from day one. It's a good idea, has some nice feel-good stories to it, but if people were to take a long hard look at things...there would be a big drop off in membership, that goes for a lot of religions too. Which has been happening on a pretty high rate for the past 20 years, there's been about an 9% percent drop off in rates during that time...while atheism/agnosticism has doubled during that same time. A great amount of people have no clue about their own religion, they focus on what they want to and what the preacher tells them. I have many problems with Christianity, not in particular order.

1) It's interjection in politics and law, which it has no business in and I'd be pissed as a Christian when "sermons" turn into political speeches. I don't care the least bit what someone does or believes in, but when it dictates laws that effects everyone...that's when it's a problem. They have a political agenda, just like Cane was hitting on I believe. They try to control how people live because they think they're doing God's work, that they're doing us all a service saving us from hell. They pass along lies and propaganda, playing on peoples fears, like my favorite line "Well when prayer was taken out of school, that's when we went downhill.". Hell, prayer has never even been taken out of school. All Christianity has done in politics is expose how big of hypocrites they can be and take focus away from real issues....they've convinced the nation that two lesbians/gays eating wedding cake is the problem of the century. Do you think Jesus wants you to donate time in a soup kitchen or in some protest?


2) A lot of it's "leaders" are nothing more than the CEO of the multi-billion dollar industry that Christianity is. Salvation is just a DVD away. Let's put all of our trust into a guy wearing a four thousand dollar suit, that took a limo from his mansion to his mega-church, yet that's what millions and millions do. When I see how much money is wasted on useless things that could be spent on what it's supposed to be, actually helping people.


3) The "holier than thou attitude", which ties into hypocrisy. While most pick what they want to follow from the Bible, they're the first to criticize someone, look down on them because they don't follow the verses they do or at all. They write them off as "bad eggs" that aren't "real" christians, whatever that means, but are in reality just as bad. Hell I think it's like 42% of Christians even attend church regularly, I wonder how many crack a Bible open out of those, then what few verses they focus on when they do? Like I said, some of the most judgmental people I have ever met, tell one you don't believe in God and see how accepting and Christ-like they act after that.


4) Just basically what fuels the entire religion, fear. From the stories, yes stories that haven't been proven, of God's wrath and what he'll do if you don't do what he says. If hell wasn't in the Bible, how many would still have this love for God? I'd say virtually no one, people believe in a religion because of fear of the unknown after death. It's an attempt to save their ass, plain and simple. With promises of something like heaven and the fear of something like hell, I can't blame them, along with the thought of getting to see your loved ones after they're gone. It's still fear nonetheless and it's played on to the fullest in Christianity to keep the masses believing. When someone is afraid, you can make them do anything you want and that's exactly what I think the creators of Christianity had in mind. Really it's what most religions have in mind and it's disgusting.


5) And one of my biggest problems, it doesn't really allow free-thought. Sure, the "free-will" line is repeated over and over, but it's a comfort thing more than anything...there's really no free-will. Of course it says that you have the "choice" to do what you want, but when it also says you'll spend eternity burning to death and be punished here on earth, it really ties your hands doesn't it? I think doubt can be the greatest thing there is, it comes from questioning which is the most important thing a person can do. Questioning isn't welcomed in Christianity, no matter how much someone wants to believe it is, it isn't. You're supposed to believe and that's that, there's no doubting God. And I believe that's by design, if people questioned it, they'd find a lot of things they don't like and that's why I believe what I believe today...questioning. I believe really all of them want to question, but like I said, can't and when they do, they ignore what it mostly and chalk it up to the "devil getting to you". Anything that shackles your mind that much, I could never be a part of. I also think it takes away from developing as a human being, in that you think you're dependent on some book and some invisible person to live and do good, everyone has that in them and doesn't need either. All of that "faith", is in someone else and something else, not where it needs to be...yourself. There's no crediting yourself or being responsible for yourself, it's either God did it or the devil did it, when it's all you and no one else.


6) Faith only goes so far for me, then logic takes over. There are an unreal amount of things that don't add up it's just fairytale-esque. Nothing at all adds up and it's not even close. I understand that as human-beings there's the urge to know all the answers, we don't like the unknown, so that's where the "god of the gaps" comes in. Plugging in God with things you don't understand or know, that's why people want to cling to religion. I can't accept that, way too much faith required to believe that, which the quote "faith is believing what you know isn't true" hits the nail on the head. If people were open minded, they'd see the same thing, that nothing at all adds up and that religions are borrowed from other religions..then when it starts to fade out, a new religion pops up, it's nothing more than a fad. A very large fad that does way more harm than good and costs lives. I'm open to the idea that there is a god, though I think it's very unlikely, but I'm almost certain it's not the Christian version. The story of jesus was passed around thousands of years before, along with other stories in the bible, there's no way it could be legit...it's not even original. I'm against most religions(except for really buddhism, if I had to pick one, that'd be what I would go with) but I have to put up with Christianity the most in this country with everything shoved down my throat.